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Post by Hannah on Mar 3, 2004 19:45:04 GMT -5
Took awhile to catch on. Zuni aka Saoa and others is a shameless promoter. Bigdoggie is most likely a shill. Is there a way to block the marketing of the pups on this board? Check out the posts on pedigree data base. They have her number there.
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Norm
Full Member
Grand Vizier
Posts: 179
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Post by Norm on Mar 3, 2004 19:55:45 GMT -5
Like I said before maybe a person should be a member of this board for a given amount of time before they can advertise. Took awhile to catch on. Zuni aka Saoa and others is a shameless promoter. Bigdoggie is most likely a shill. Is there a way to block the marketing of the pups on this board? Check out the posts on pedigree data base. They have her number there.
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Post by BigDoggie on Mar 3, 2004 20:17:43 GMT -5
Good night people.......IT'S DINNER TIME!!!!!....I don't know Zunni, and based on the emails I just received, there are a lot of people who are really enjoying this unresponsive, off-target, misguided, thread.....While THEY may be laughing at you, I am bored, disinterested, and hungry....Oh yeah, if anybody is reading this, any information, current photos, etc. on Canto aus der Burgenstadt would be appreciated. ;D
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Post by cantofan on Mar 3, 2004 21:15:08 GMT -5
Regarding Canto, I know the dog. There is a lot of information on this site that is NOT true. For example, his hips have been x-rayed and he is going to europe for titling in two weeks. He would have been there sooner but the one trainer that the owner trusted and had faith in was booked and then there was a death in the family which took priority over everything else. The dog has a great temperment and is a lovable, friendly dog. The pic here on this board was not for publication, however, since it is here and I have seen the dog personally, I can honestly say that this pic does not do him any justice. I am not a breeder, nor am I in the dog business at all, however I felt that Canto was getting a raw deal here and I needed to speak up in his defense.
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Post by Andi on Mar 3, 2004 21:20:31 GMT -5
Does anyone else smell a troll?
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Post by Currmudgeon on Mar 3, 2004 22:00:33 GMT -5
I don't know if he's breedworthy or not. Then you don't know what you are talking about. He cannot be breedworthy under SV rules. I leave it to you to figure out why. My apologies. Your sock puppet said that. You were quoted accurately, your absurd allegations notwithstanding.
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Post by Currmudgeon on Mar 3, 2004 22:03:45 GMT -5
based on the emails I just received ... Ah. The legions of E-Mail supporters. <ROFLMAO>
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Zuni
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by Zuni on Mar 3, 2004 22:11:22 GMT -5
well well well... where do i start.. Canto is leaving in 2 weeks to go for his titling in europe, so we're going to delay breeding my female to this fall. I'm not AT ALL interested in selling ANY pups of this combination to ANY naysayers. So, just forget that I'm trying to promote this breeding to you. I seek out GREAT pet homes for most and keep those I 'think' will do well for myself and the eventual shows they will appear in. I am VERY familiar with training and evaluating dogs, but find Schutzhund an obscure sport, and boring. The one person commenting on the dutch breeding program for Police Dogs is right. YOu can title a mongrol dog as long as it has the drives. I am Dutch and pretty familiar with the KNPV program. MUCH superior to Schutzhund. I also have 2 dutch shepherds here which I raise for k9 handlers and ONLY sell to k9 handlers. So, I know what drives are................... Then, though Tito may be titled and scored high at the show, I still WOULD NOT breed any of my (untitled or titled) females to him. No offense intended. I would prefer to breed a Dutch Shepherd male to my females, so they'd produce some REAL WORKING DRIVES. I could sell the pups easily to k9 departments. Additionally, I DECIDE which dogs to breed, not all of you critics. So, influencing me is not going to happen. I currently have 2 females in Europe for their training. I 'm surmising you critics are MILLIONAIRES because you must be sending your dogs there for the 3,000 euros training / surveys / roundtrip shipping etc on a daily basis. I'm not that impulsive. I'm a successful business woman with a serious hobby and make sure I break even, not going into debt for this. And sofar, my pups have made many families very happy. To me that's MUCH more important than what all of you think deriving from the judgemental snobby remarks I've seen written here. Perhaps the world one day will become a better place, one where people live without judgement. If we, as a small faction in a GSD community can't even get along without slamming, damaging other people's plans, reputations, then when is this world ever going to be a peaceful one.... it's sad, truly sad... Adieu Mes Amis
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Post by Currmudgeon on Mar 3, 2004 22:14:02 GMT -5
Regarding Canto, I know the dog. Ah, how the sockpuppets multiply in the drier. And interesting to note where their first message appears, eh? The rest of what you post is in line with everything else posted. It is advertising hype with no substance. Canto may prove to be the wunderhund of the century. He may beat my arse from one end of the world to the other and take a chunk out of by butt besides. I'd be delighted to see that. Until he has something to show, he's worth a little more than his puppy price.
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Post by Currmudgeon on Mar 3, 2004 22:19:08 GMT -5
Like I said before maybe a person should be a member of this board for a given amount of time before they can advertise. I'd oppose that strongly. There's been no harm done by this exchange. Our members are pretty saavy and have a pretty respectable ability to take care of themselves. I believe this kind of rough and tumble exchange is a good thing. If it turns out that we develop a real problem, we can always revisit this argument.
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Post by Currmudgeon on Mar 3, 2004 22:22:11 GMT -5
Additionally, I DECIDE which dogs to breed, not all of you critics. Aren't you the one who touts those fake vom Weinerau dogs?
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Post by workingdawg on Mar 3, 2004 22:38:34 GMT -5
well well well... where do i start.. Canto is leaving in 2 weeks to go for his titling in europe, so we're going to delay breeding my female to this fall. I'm not AT ALL interested in selling ANY pups of this combination to ANY naysayers. So, just forget that I'm trying to promote this breeding to you. I am VERY familiar with training and evaluating dogs, but find Schutzhund an obscure sport, and boring. The one person commenting on the dutch breeding program for Police Dogs is right. YOu can title a mongrol dog as long as it has the drives. I am Dutch and pretty familiar with the KNPV program. MUCH superior to Schutzhund. I also have 2 dutch shepherds here which I raise for k9 handlers and ONLY sell to k9 handlers. So, I know what drives are................... Then, though Tito may be titled and scored high at the show, I still WOULD NOT breed any of my (untitled or titled) females to him. No offense intended. I would prefer to breed a Dutch Shepherd male to my females, so they'd produce some REAL WORKING DRIVES. I could sell the pups easily to k9 departments. I'm not that impulsive. I'm a successful business woman with a serious hobby and make sure I break even, not going into debt for this. And sofar, my pups have made many families very happy. To me that's MUCH more important than what all of you think deriving from the judgemental snobby remarks I've seen written here. Perhaps the world one day will become a better place, one where people live without judgement. If we, as a small faction in a GSD community can't even get along without slamming, damaging other people's plans, reputations, then when is this world ever going to be a peaceful one.... above snipped for brevity i think you are being untruthful, i think you were hoping that people would contact you about obtaining pups from this male.. it seems with the advent of the internet, everyone and anyone with "german or dutch heritage" is now a dog training expert and can "evaluate" a dog. before i ever thought of calling myself experienced i titled dogs in that boring and obscure sport schutzhund,akc obed and even french ring sport. i was part of the ADPDA, (american dutch police dog assoc) back when diane san lorenzo was trying to bring knpv to america...*wow was THAT a waste of my hard earned $$* to compare schutzhund to knpv is also silly, with the influx of the fat american dollar so readily handed over, knpv has also developed weak dogs. schutzhund is what we have here to utilize, it will only be useful if you participate in it honestly, in otherwords, your dog does actually EARN the titles. just a question, if you dislike schutzhund so much..why not ship ole canto off to holland and slap a PH1 on him? or an object bewakingshond? i am curious, what agencies do you deal with that buy PUPPIES??? i need to find some of those all the agencies that contact me want 12-24mos old dogs. i don;t believe anyone set out to slam anyone..but there has been a tremendous amount of activity on this thread because someone stated this canto dog was the next best thing coming...and it turns out maybe this was just some puppy selling hype. the various regulars that frequent this board and others have tremendous passion for this breed. i may prefer working lines, but to insinuate a dog like tito has no working ability is assinine and petty. when you have achieved with one of your dogs what he has done, then run your mouth and denegrate...until such time, suck it up and take the heat... janis and dennis have never resorted to cheap shots on anyones dogs, have always conducted themselves with class and eloquence, (well ok, maybe more janis then dennis ) taking pot shots at tito will only make you look smaller and more defensive than you appear now.
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Post by workingdawg on Mar 3, 2004 22:41:13 GMT -5
Aren't you the one who touts those fake vom Weinerau dogs? i believe you nailed it 100% curr 100% pure alrighty
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Post by Hannah on Mar 4, 2004 9:03:44 GMT -5
I seek out GREAT pet homes for most and keep those I 'think' will do well for myself and the eventual shows they will appear in.>> What shows have you entered? Your Wienerau.com (which you purchased to prevent it from being exploited) website features untitled dogs. enough Gina. You should switch to american shepherds. (no offense Norm)You should have learned something by now. You become a pariah everywhere you go. To be critical of Tito is beyond absurd.
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Post by ovejero on Mar 4, 2004 9:07:20 GMT -5
Wolf said: "I don't know anyone here dislikes this dog, that is not what this is about".
When I posted the only picture I could find on the dog I chose to say very little. I only said "Frankly I don't know what we are talking about". What I meant was that the picture spoke volumes about the lack of merit of the entire conversation. I didn't want to put a damper on the exuberant enthusiasm of Big Doggie who apparently had seen the dog personally and was filled with the kind of excitement and hope that we all have felt when we think we have discovered a great hidden treasure (as he presented it in the initial post)
Then came the backlash of the age old question of breeding with or without titles and so on and the conversation moved away from the dog and finally landed in the intentions of the owners, reasons for the post, and allegations of cheap advertisement.
The intetersting thing to me, and perhaps a bit even humorous, is that only one person, Norm, nailed the issue on the head when he asked the question: "what is all the fuss about?"
I always sustain that pictures can often be misleading. If you read the posts in the other thread about "roached backs" you will see what I mean. However there are things you cannot distort too much on photos, one of them is croup position, another, rear angulation. It is obvious to me that this dog is in this country because he does not have a chance at a career of any sort back in Germany. The type of rear conformation he exhibits with a very short and steep croup and lack of rear angulation could not possibly render the type of movement that is required of a top show winner. HEre we get back into the issues of gullibility and innocence that we have in our nation about imported stock from famous names.
We also get into the issues of the german network of breeders, brokers and importers who have prayed so much upon the innocence (and frankly igonrance) of the American and Asian importers with deep pockets.
Ultimately the responsibility lies with us to become educated and to know in an instant if what we found was a hidden treasure or fools' gold. In this case, and with th unfairness that always arises from judging by a single picture, I would certainly have to lean to the second.
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