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Post by BigDoggie on Feb 27, 2004 13:30:24 GMT -5
I recently had the opportunity to see Ursus son, Canto aus der Burgentstadt. He's now in the U.S. (for a short period), is only about 2 years old and, for lack of a better word, is just AWESOME!!!!! Canto has not appeared at any Seiger shows yet, and the word is that the owners are waiting patiently to let him develop more, etc., and then unleash this beauty. He has big, big bone, spectacular confirmation, a great head and super masculine face, and is so red it's hard to comprehend that such a color appears in nature. THIS DOG IS SO AMAZING, IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE!!!!! I personally bought a male Canto pup, and he is dynamite as well, but this discussion is not about him. The few things I've heard about Canto are just super-positive, overly enthusiastic rants and RAVES.....and I've heard his other few litters have been generally spectacular. I'VE HEARD THE OWNERS HAVE BEEN HUSH-HUSH ABOUT THIS DOG, BUT HAS ANYONE OUT THERE SEEN HIM, OR HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT HIM? There are hardly any photos of him out there, and those that do exist can't even come close to doing this dog justice. Any info, rumors, impressions, gossip, assessments, guesses, etc., would be truly appreciated. I know it's too early to tell, but, from what I've seen, this dog could be the next SUPER STUD --- German Shepherd God--- and play a major role in setting the GSD Seiger standard for the future.
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Post by Kirsten on Feb 27, 2004 18:01:33 GMT -5
I would be very interested to see a picture ?!
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Post by BigDoggie on Feb 27, 2004 18:38:07 GMT -5
Yes, I, too, wish there were some good photos of Canto out there. The few that exist are lousy, make him look like a different dog than he is, and were not professionally done. This dog, in person, almost redefines what a GSD should be!!!!!!!!!! and I've seen a bunch from the A-team. Maybe the owner will get to it, and get us some real pics, that is, unless the objective is to keep Canto under wraps until he's ready to Rock the Seiger circuit.............If I come across any, I will definitely post them.
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Post by JanisN on Feb 27, 2004 18:41:38 GMT -5
How was his titling? Any ideas?
JanisN
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Post by BigDoggie on Feb 27, 2004 18:53:57 GMT -5
All I've heard is that the owners are being quietly patient, spending the important time with him, and waiting to show his full promise at the right time. His pedigree is on the pedigreedatabase.com website. Not too shabby. Will he be a producer? Don't know, but I've heard about, and read posts from owners of pups from, previous litters....and everyone's raving.
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Dog1
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Post by Dog1 on Feb 28, 2004 10:21:58 GMT -5
I saw Canto when he arrived into the US at the airport. He's red allright. Masculine head also. I belive they plan to send him back to Holland for training.
I tattooed two of his puppies, a male and a female. Best pups I have seen. I emailed his owner and told him they should keep the puppies. I think they were sold, someone has some nice Canto puppies out there.
They were sable too.
Good luck with canto. Hope to see him at one of our sieger shows.
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Zuni
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Post by Zuni on Feb 28, 2004 18:31:42 GMT -5
TEXTTEXTYes Canto is a true quality high drive dog. I'm going to breed him to my female in April for a spectular 2,3 on Ursus with MUCH Wienerau to boot, as Canto is out of fabulous Fanta vom Klebinger Schloss, sister to SG17 Falco. and 3,4 on Hobby G. He will go to Europe for his titles as soon as they have space with their top trainers. ;D Can't wait to see Canto myself in person and my female Hummel is quite a girl herself, so I'm pretty anxious to see the pups. Its exiting to be one of the first six litters of this potential producer and I hope one of my pups will help him get there. Don't know if I'll hold back a male or a female yet. or both ...
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Post by Nightshadows on Feb 28, 2004 19:37:01 GMT -5
anyone have any better photos fo him? The one I saw didnt make him look nice at all He looks young though and immature, but VERY red. Im sure the pups will be nice!
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Post by BigDoggie on Feb 28, 2004 22:27:45 GMT -5
Yes......I agree.......The few photos floating around out there are not flattering at all. I saw the photos before I saw him, and when I did finally see him in person, I couldn't believe it's the same dog. He's also about 6-7 months older than in the photos.......
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Kerry
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Post by Kerry on Feb 29, 2004 18:37:26 GMT -5
TEXTTEXTI'm going to breed him to my female in April for a spectular 2,3 on Ursus... Its exiting to be one of the first six litters of this potential producer and I hope one of my pups will help him get there. Don't know if I'll hold back a male or a female yet. or both ... Your intended breeding may be a match made in heaven, however, as you know, it's going to depend on how the genes stack up. A friend pointed out this male, 3-2 on Ursus, and 4-3 Hobby. By the photo provided, he appears to have many of the Ursus structural faults. Surely, he has a very nice head, expression and color. www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/388767.htmlIs your female, Hummel titled and further rated beyond SG? I think that in the arena where Canto might best succeed, the Canto hopefuls will promote him best if she and they are Schutzhund titled.
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Post by BigDoggie on Mar 1, 2004 8:46:02 GMT -5
Kerry.....your points are definitely well taken........and only time will tell.....but I've really got to tell ya, if Zuni's 3-2 line-breeding on Ursus (through Canto) results in a litter where all the pups look like Ursus with the Ursus faults, Zuni's going to be one happy breeder. Ursus, with his faults, "ain't" too bad. Of course, if his faults come through exaggerated in the litter, we will have learned something. And, if Zuni's female's characteristics end up compensating for any Ursus fault, someone has hit a home run!!! Time will tell, and good luck Zuni.....!!!
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Zuni
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Post by Zuni on Mar 2, 2004 14:47:14 GMT -5
Thanks Bigdoggie for your common sense approach to breeding. ;D Canto is indeed a beauty. He is 90lbs, by the way. Hummel is 67lbs. A beauty as well. Ursus, no matter what some folks see as a flaw, became World Champion because he prooved through his progeny what he was capable of producing. He remains one of my favorite Siegers. Canto has already produced, at his young age, now ONLY 2 yrs and 3 months, very good litters. His oldest litter is already one year old. His owners are committed to putting a SchH1,2 & 3 on him within the next year. It would be no problem to title Hummel, if need be. Her bite work is excellent. Her obedience too, and tracking with her talents she's displayed to me in the past would even be easier. She lives with a host family, though owned by me. If indeed one of these pups would display the strenghts we seek, and it will help Canto rise in the show world, then sure, I'll title her so the pup(s) can become part of the progeny group Canto will need.
The future, after all, holds all of us in its grip...
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Post by JanisN on Mar 2, 2004 17:52:47 GMT -5
It would be no problem to title Hummel, if need be. So why don't you title her? JanisN
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Post by BigDoggie on Mar 2, 2004 20:46:30 GMT -5
hmmmmmmmmm.....Maybe, just maybe.....it's because when one undertakes an effort like that, with the time, effort, resources, etc., etc., that needs to be expended, one would have an immediate, defined, targeted purpose for doing so...It might even be possible that Zuni has a few other things to do........hmmmm.....I don't know zuni, but your question is a strange one........Oh, by the way, your Tito is a beautiful dog......
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Post by JanisN on Mar 2, 2004 21:08:50 GMT -5
Why is the question such a strange one? The German SV has worked out a rather "workable" system for determining the breed worthiness of animals. It's not foolproof, no system is, but it's better than nothing.
Until your dog has been judged as "recommended for breeding" you have just a pretty dog. I don't honestly care if you tell me how wonderful the temperament is, how great the protection work is, how beautifully the animal tracks... get out on the trial field along with everyone else trying to do the right thing and put the titles on your dog that at least go a little way towards proving what you're asserting.
And if you don't have a club near you, you don't have the expertise or physical ability to do it yourself, then get the dog to a trainer who CAN do it before breeding the animal. Yeah, it's expensive but it's also part of the cost of maintaining the breed standard and breeding to improve the breed.
In training and on the trial field and in the breed survey, dogs come up against many DIFFERENT things that test their temperaments. You aren't going to find these tests while the dog is hanging around the yard, going to PetSmart or running around the dog park. You literally do NOT know what you have until it's tested. How do you know what is going to be reproduced in the progeny if you don't know what's in the parent stock?
I get sick and tired of the sharp or cowardly $800 puppies that are out there masquarading as what the true German Shepherd dog should be. Put titles on the parents and THEN maybe I'll look at the progeny. Until that point, the puppies are just brown dogs.
And thanks for you compliments on Tito. He's an incredibly fun dog and the old man has given us a lot of excitement. Now hopefully he's giving us the litter I want.<grin>
JanisN
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