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Post by Nightshadows on Jan 9, 2004 20:26:07 GMT -5
What about VA Orbit v Tronje? Not sure where he is or if shipping is out for you but thought I'd throw him in. His koer report: very expressive, over medium size, medium strength, correct height to length proportions, high wither, well laid back, very good length and angle of the croup, very good hind angulation with broad thighs. Correct forehand angulation, balanced brisket proportions, correct front. Absolutely correct coming and going in front and behind with very good center of balance, wide outreaching gait with powerful hind thrust and and free front reach. This Neptune son impresses me because of his correct and harmonious general appearance, dark mask and pronounced color on the forehead. HD Normal. His ZW is low at 76. Not sure about his working ability but I am assuming it is good enough for him to go VA. Orbit von Tronje:  Here is a nice son by him- Gonzalez:  |
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 9, 2004 20:26:43 GMT -5
Laurie, Breeding sable to sable could result in a litter of sables or a mix of sables and black & tans. If both sire and dam have the black recessive you could get blacks in the litter too. Since both Rayne and Camp appear to have good pigmentation they should have well pigmented puppies if bred together. What is a bi-sable? That is a new term to my ears. Has someone invented a new color? Not sure about breeding sable to sable, although some have done it successfully, ..., |
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 9, 2004 20:32:11 GMT -5
Dana, The Koer report talks about Orbit's dark mask and the color of the forehead but doesn't mention the fading black of the saddle. Nor does it mention that his back is not in compliance with the standard. Are these errors of commission or errors of omission? What about VA Orbit v Tronje? Not sure where he is or if shipping is out for you but thought I'd throw him in. His koer report: very expressive, over medium size, medium strength, correct height to length proportions, high wither, well laid back, very good length and angle of the croup, very good hind angulation with broad thighs. Correct forehand angulation, balanced brisket proportions, correct front. Absolutely correct coming and going in front and behind with very good center of balance, wide outreaching gait with powerful hind thrust and and free front reach. This Neptune son impresses me because of his correct and harmonious general appearance, dark mask and pronounced color on the forehead. HD Normal. His ZW is low at 76. Not sure about his working ability but I am assuming it is good enough for him to go VA. |
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Post by Nightshadows on Jan 9, 2004 20:36:37 GMT -5
I didnt omit anything. Do a search and you will find this exact koer report yourself. Back on topic.
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 9, 2004 20:39:58 GMT -5
Normie...give us your choice of males for Rayne  |
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 9, 2004 21:13:55 GMT -5
I was referring to the person that did the Koer report, not you  I didnt omit anything. Do a search and you will find this exact koer report yourself. Back on topic. |
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 9, 2004 21:16:33 GMT -5
I don't know anything about European bloodlines so I can't suggest any dog, but based on Rayne's picture I would chose the best overall male that I could find. Again remember I look from the point of view of a show person. Normie...give us your choice of males for Rayne |
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Amaruq
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Post by Amaruq on Jan 9, 2004 21:35:49 GMT -5
Laurie, Breeding sable to sable could result in a litter of sables or a mix of sables and black & tans. If both sire and dam have the black recessive you could get blacks in the litter too. Since both Rayne and Camp appear to have good pigmentation they should have well pigmented puppies if bred together. What is a bi-sable? That is a new term to my ears. Has someone invented a new color? Bi-color sable, whether an official color or not, is something I use to differentiate between shades/patterns of sables. I have 4 sables three are females- if someone is familiar with my dogs but not sure which is which by name I refer to Tika as red sable, Rayne as tan sable or 'the light one', and KC as the Bi-color or black bi color sable. Seems to help most but cause more questions with a few.... KC (what I refer to as bi-sable as she is a sable with a bi-color pattern)....  As far as color not being an issue I personally do not care what color the pups are as long as they are healthy. Yes, I personally prefer the sables but that is my preference. What I know from the motherline in all my sables (back thru Bax von Ennazus) Sables are predominate. Bax was bred 4 times and always to a saddle back- never threw anything except sables. Kayla (Raynes mother) was bred two times previous (neither to sables) and threw b/t or reds, bi's and blacks. Bred with Chimo- sable (Bax grandson) Kayla threw all sables in the litter. I personally would expect to see Blacks (depending on the sire of course) before I see b/t but hey- they can always prove me wrong. Of the males listed- where are they located and does anyone have breakdowns on SCH scores? While ppl usually look at protection and OB I like to see very high tracking scores- I have a special appreciation of the nose on this great breed and that is something I definately want to continue through my girls. |
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Post by workingdawg on Jan 9, 2004 21:53:11 GMT -5
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Amaruq
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Post by Amaruq on Jan 9, 2004 23:01:50 GMT -5
Absolutely talking about Belschik too. Might not be looking at him for Rayne but KC and Tika are always in the back of my mind. And yes 93 is very respectable. Canton? We are almost neighbors (well ok you are within driving distance anyway ). I am in NW PA. |
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 10, 2004 14:07:10 GMT -5
My guess would be that IF you breed Rayne to a showline black and red dog, You would get sable and/or black and tan/red puppies. But most likely NOT black. Sure she could have the black recessive gene. But chances are that the stud would not. If the black recessive was in the genes of many of the showline dogs, you would see a fair number of solid black showline dogs. And you don't. She also can't be Homozygous for the Sable gene since she has a black and red parent.
The reason that Bax never had puppies of any other color other than sable no mater the color of the stud dog could be because she had 2 sable parents. She could very well have been Homozygous sable.
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Post by workingdawg on Jan 10, 2004 16:11:59 GMT -5
Absolutely talking about Belschik too. Might not be looking at him for Rayne but KC and Tika are always in the back of my mind. And yes 93 is very respectable. Canton? We are almost neighbors (well ok you are within driving distance anyway ). I am in NW PA. yuppers...we are not too far apart..feel free to PM me if you would like to meet the old man for yourself one day. i am sure i can pry him off the sofa long enough for a social visit ;D be prepared though..he is definatley NOT a golden retriever mentality..he is very aloof to anyone but his "auntie". in fact, just recently when josh,david and i were all together, he basically stared right through josh to see --> me <--  ;D he did the most goofy wiggly humiliating "dance" for such a tough dog... he certainly knows who spoils him..but he will definatley allow you to approach him and pet him if you want..he just won;t "solicit" your attention. we train usually every saturday down towards massillon..should not be too far of a drive for you. |
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Post by Nightshadows on Jan 10, 2004 16:16:41 GMT -5
why did they give you Belschik anyways?
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Post by workingdawg on Jan 10, 2004 16:33:20 GMT -5
why did they give you Belschik anyways? because they were returning to florida, and would not have a tremendous amount of space for dogs.they wanted a home for him where he would be pampered and spoiled, yet still be handled correctly. this arrangement also allows the dog to be collected with more ease as their vet is in cleveland/akron. they knew i would be a good choice for him i suppose..and were basically concerned that he get the type of "retirement" home all dogs deserve. just goes to show you, i guess josh and david aren't the classless @sses that some people in the dogworld try to make them out to be..they were actually kind of watery eyed when he got loaded up. (doubt they ever admit THAT...lol). so although he is here to hold down a sofa, and occasionally peruse the trash can..he is not *my* dog..he still belongs to them and always will...he just lives with me.it was the best thing for him, he is no longer a kennel dog, he is a spoiled house dog, living out his golden years like a king. hope that clarifies. |
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Amaruq
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Post by Amaruq on Jan 12, 2004 3:12:40 GMT -5
I appreciate all of the replies I have had so far and now I am about to ask for some more of your PERSONAL opinions on a particular dog. What about V-1 Zulu Von Beluga? www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/122948.html Has anyone seen him in person? Any of his offspring? What are your impressions and personal opinions? Thanks in advance. |
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;D he did the most goofy wiggly humiliating "dance" for such a tough dog...