Amaruq
Junior Member
Posts: 34
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Post by Amaruq on Jan 8, 2004 3:40:28 GMT -5
Any one up for another paper breeding? Todays subject is Rayne. I know many people have their preference for working line vs. showline- my girls happen to be a mix of both and I am VERY pleased with all of them. For Rayne, however, I am looking for most likely a German showline male but will in no way overlook a working line that would be the perfect fit for her. I have posted a pic and a link to her 'degree'. What I am looking to improve upon is her wither height and her proportions, correct angulation and croup, and would also like to work on smaller firmer ears. However, most of what I want from the male (besides health) is an awesome temperment, personality and superior true working ability. I want the awesome scenting abilities and willingness to work through anything that I see in Rayne. A male with her sense of humor would be kewl with us too. ;D I have a couple in mind but I would like to see what you all can come up with. This is the best we have of Rayne free stacked for now- (see the edit at the bottom) www.2agsd.com/Rayne_Ped.htmlIt is not mandatory that the Male have the same rock fetish that Rayne has but it is an endearing quality of hers! ;D BTW no flames keep it loose and have fun! Edited to say the other pic will be posted later- need to upload it somewhere other than cartogra......
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 8, 2004 19:44:58 GMT -5
OHHH, I love paper breedings, especially when they aren't my dogs! This can be fun, if everyone will remember to mind their manners. Let's try and be open - minded and fair, so that perhaps the members will be encouraged to participate without fear of being flamed. That being said, I'll take the first stab at it? I read what Ruq was looking for to improve upon with Rayne. I also studied her pedigree. An interesting combination of dogs. There is probably not a big chance of stumbling across any linebreeding if Ruq chooses a German showline male, not anything too close for sure. Ruq is looking for temperament and health first in her male. And for tighter, smaller ears, better angulation and a higher wither. Croups always need improvement...LOL Three males come to mind, note that I've chosen males here in the good ol' USA, as I have personally no desire to use males in Europe. For her first breeding, I recommend that Rayne goes to a proven male that is within easy driving or shipping distance. Batchelor #1 V1 Indo Vom Geesthügel SchH3, KKL1a ZW - 92 I have admired this male from afar, and have taken notes over the past couple of years, regarding his show and working career. A well known Nationals competitor has worked this dog, and has informed me this is a true working dog. He has also produced many beautiful, correctly structured pups. My only concern might be his size, (he's large! ) as Rayne appears to be a large female as well, and his ZW (92) could be better. If Rayne has good to excellent hips, we could take that into consideration. I think this male would definitely help her earset, angulation, and he has a very high wither, and beautiful coat, color, and type. His working ability is well reknowned in the showline world. This appears to be a total outcross, so we would be hoping for genetic propensity from Indo himself. And he's in North America!
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 8, 2004 19:59:51 GMT -5
Batchelor #2: V Diego v. Bullinger SchH3 KKL1a I own the sister of this male, so I can attest for the true working ability of this line. Diego is a very happy, high drive dog, he's medium sized, healthy, and comes from an excellent pedigree....dogs that have proven themselves to have great work ethic. He would improve Rayne's earset, and other structural deficiencies, no linebreeding that I'm aware of, and he's also in North America. Again, the health of this particular line allows me to recommend Diego, the hips are sound. I've never taken his sister to the vet, for ANY health problem, with the exception of an insect bite last year.
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 8, 2004 20:13:49 GMT -5
Finally, Batchelor #3: SG Belschik von Eicken-Bruche SchH3 KKL2 "a" Belschik is of course from the working lines, and Ruq mentioned she would consider this, if it were the perfect fit. I don't think any of us can predict what would be perfect for Rayne, but we can sure scratch it out on paper. This male is a proven producer of high drive working dogs. His color and earset would definitely help Rayne, and he has a noticeably higher wither. I believe there would be a linebreeding way back on Gildo? Hips might be something to keep an eye on because of Gildo, however, Belschik himself has a decent ZW of 86. Again another fine male available right here in the USA.
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 8, 2004 20:26:19 GMT -5
Laurie, You forgot to add that Diego is also a Canadian Champion.
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 8, 2004 20:29:33 GMT -5
I thought that Belschik was "retired"? (But that they "might" sell some frozen semen for $2500 a wack. )
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 8, 2004 20:36:16 GMT -5
Laurie, You forgot to add that Diego is also a Canadian Champion. Oops! BTW, Diego is a Canadian Champion!! ;D I dunno if Belschik is retired yet, I hear he's still going strong!! Okay, anybody else? Tracy, have a go at it ! I've ran my mouth enough!
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 8, 2004 21:21:11 GMT -5
Well Iwas just going by what Josh and David said a couple of months ago. That the "old man" would no longer be breeding after the first of the year. You weren't talking to ME about having a "go" at this paper breeding thing were you?
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 8, 2004 21:33:12 GMT -5
You weren't talking to ME about having a "go" at this paper breeding thing were you? Yes, I was! ;D Ruq gave us permission to have fun ! Let's hear who you think would be good with Rayne?
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Post by gsdoglady on Jan 8, 2004 21:57:48 GMT -5
I love Diego - what a wonderful personality - a reasonable dog who turns into a working fool when on the training field.
Of course,as the old saying goes, if you like the son, breed to the father -- Triumph's Gucci is in Kansas. That certainly is a proven combination of show structure and working ability.
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 9, 2004 1:33:28 GMT -5
I AM having fun . It is FUN for me to read what others have to say ;D. I have less than NO clue "what goes with what" as far as breeding goes. And even less clue what dogs are producing what traits in their kids. ESPECIALLY the Show lines.
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Amaruq
Junior Member
Posts: 34
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Post by Amaruq on Jan 9, 2004 3:09:25 GMT -5
Tracey- I have been drooling over every pic of your boy since the day you brought him home. And over his father before Crazy was born.....I would love to steal Xero for a valentines MONTH with any of my girls!!!!
Rayne is the only one going to predominately Show lines.
KC I will prolly pair her with working lines. Tika I am undecided have a couple males I like for her. Some show some working. Will play with the other two later. <Anyone care to get ready- KC's ped is exactly the same as Rayne's- they are littermates>.
Jezzi- Rayne carries dark genes behind her- she was the only 'light' one in the litter. Well Ari is a bit silvery but she is a bi-sable. The others in her litter are dark. KC the littermate I own is the black bi-sable. Not overly worried about color- I know with Bax behind her sable will more than likely be dominate! (hehehehe)
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Post by CzechGSD on Jan 9, 2004 12:55:05 GMT -5
Tracey- I have been drooling over every pic of your boy since the day you brought him home. Thanks. ;D I really wish I could post the newest pictures I have of him, but this board doesn't like Cartogra. He is REALLY starting to look mature in the head. (Unfortunately his brain hasn't gotten as large as his head. ) Ok, you said that with Rayne you would like Show lines but with her sister you want to go with working lines. Any particular reason? (Just being nosey. ;D)
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Post by Jezzi on Jan 9, 2004 16:40:55 GMT -5
Jezzi- Rayne carries dark genes behind her- she was the only 'light' one in the litter. Well Ari is a bit silvery but she is a bi-sable. The others in her litter are dark. KC the littermate I own is the black bi-sable. Not overly worried about color- I know with Bax behind her sable will more than likely be dominate! (hehehehe) Okay, if you are not overly concerned with color, then I would like to recommend this male: World Universal Sieger V-Camp v. Muhlteich SchH 3 (BSP, LGA-Sieger) FH 2, Kkl 1 (life) "a" Normal Not sure about breeding sable to sable, although some have done it successfully, and if you have good color in Rayne's background, perhaps this will come through in the pups. And if color in general is not a big issue with you, then perhaps Camp would be an ideal mate for Rayne. Or her bicolor sis? Camp is proving himself to be a good producer of correct structure, with both show and working line females. Edited, cause I found a stacked photo of him.
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Post by workingdawg on Jan 9, 2004 17:04:11 GMT -5
just to clarify with regards to old man belschik..he is indeed still available for breeding, in fact my vet was overwhelmed by the quality of the collection he got from him when we did the fresh AI's recently. i know josh and david have changed direction with him a bit now since he in my care, he is available for fresh AI breedings, they will alllow 3 AI's per stud contract, which is very reasonable. he will continue being collected and frozen as well..but fresh AI is very reasonable to do financially...and hey, why go frozen when you could have fresh ;D i know i seem to drone on and on about the old man..but he really is a special dog. conformationally speaking, he has thick ear leather, and nice sized ears too. nice dark eyes..good strong teeth etc etc. he is a very square boy..a leg on each corner basically and to be blunt..built like the proverbial brick sh*thouse. i thought he was just a little "fat" when i brought him home with me, nope, he is all thick bone..this dog is unreal..he really resembles a bear. currently he weighs 74.7lbs, is well covered but not fat.he is not "small" he is a nice medium size,(contrary to some rumors... ) he is also not DEAD...or STERILE....lol (the dog world really is amazing isn't it?) as far as producing working ability..YESYESYES..but be prepared..every dang one of his offspring have that same screeeeeeeeam. in fact when i take the old man to club with me..everyone knows he is there before i even take him out of the crate.. ;D all his offspring that i have seen to date have all been tremendously well balanced mentally, have drive out the wazoo..and seem to learn very quickly..i see a young daughter of his progressing at such a fast rate..it amazes me that she is just 8mos old. nothing flusters this girl..she is clear as day, and a real working machine. her handler has done a tremendous job bringing her along so far. watch for their website to be updated soon..i know sometime in the next couple months we are going to OFA his hips and elbows again..be interesting to see how he compares now at this age. considering he moves clean as a whistle and without effort..i am sure he will get a good rating. **oops, one more thing..the main reason for fresh or frozen AI with the old man now is due to the length of time with a tie..he will tie upwards of one hour..usually 45min minimum..that is simply too much to ask of any older dog *i* think. he will still readily mount a bitch and breed naturally, if you let him..but i don;t think it is in his best interest to allow that... josh and david can be reached for any questions regarding belschik www.kiewelworkingdogs.comhope that helps
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