Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 5, 2004 15:40:56 GMT -5
Please check your local listings for air times. The schedule is subject to change.
AKC/Eukanuba National Championship (3-hour showing)
Animal Planet & Discovery Channel (simulcast): • Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 8 p.m. ET/PT** and 11 p.m. ET/PT (** 7-8 p.m. AKC/Eukanuba National Championship PRESHOW "The Road to the National Championship" on Animal Planet ONLY)
Animal Planet repeats: • Sunday, February 1, 2004, at noon ET/PT
• Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 8 p.m. ET/PT and 11 p.m. ET/PT
• Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 9 a.m. ET/PT
AKC National Agility Championship (1- hour showing)
Animal Planet: • Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 8 p.m. ET/PT and 11 p.m. ET/PT
• Friday, February 13, 2004, at 9 p.m. ET/PT and midnight ET/PT
• Sunday, February 15, 2004, at 3 p.m. ET/PT
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Post by TheDahliMamma on Jan 7, 2004 11:55:50 GMT -5
Thanks, Norm!
Fran
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Jan 31, 2004 12:46:09 GMT -5
Don't forget to tune in tonight.
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Post by Wolf on Jan 31, 2004 14:18:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the reminder Norm!
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Post by Nightshadows on Jan 31, 2004 17:02:34 GMT -5
i'll be watching, gotta see what dog is entered that is supposed to represent the breed.
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US2004
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Post by US2004 on Feb 11, 2004 14:19:35 GMT -5
And boy was it sad Of coarse the AKC doesn't know a quality GSD when they see one, it's not even worth watching to see what they have. Of coarse it's not a dog out of working bloodlines. It's a dog out of bloodlines specifically for that purpose, to trot around in a circle and look pretty.
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Feb 11, 2004 15:01:37 GMT -5
Wow are we lucky to have a new member that knows quality GSD's better then the AKC does. Could we see pictures of your dogs so that we can see what a quality GSD looks like? ;D And boy was it sad Of coarse the AKC doesn't know a quality GSD when they see one, it's not even worth watching to see what they have. Of coarse it's not a dog out of working bloodlines. It's a dog out of bloodlines specifically for that purpose, to trot around in a circle and look pretty.
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US2004
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Post by US2004 on Feb 12, 2004 12:33:49 GMT -5
Are you telling me that that over angulated dog almost running on his hind elbows was a quality representation of the breed? It was not. Yep, you're definately an AKC junkie ;D The GSD was created a working animal and should have working conformation, which the AKC does not demand of any importance. They would rather the dog be "pretty" above all else, not taking into consideration any of the traits that make the GSD such a vertaile working dog. As a matter of fact, the AKC doesn't really have any requirements(besides being registered) for the dogs before they're bred. That means if I had an AKC reg GSD and my neighbor did too, bad-b-bing we can start a breeding business. And that's scary The SV(in Germany), on the other hand, the dogs must have working titles under their belt, before they can even be shown. And the conformation is working conformation. The dogs must be built for the work, not for the showring. So basically, the SV narrows everything down so that only the better dogs are selected for breeding, keeping the working qualities true to the blood, and that's the way it should be. This is why Schutzhund enthusiasts, police depts, etc., have their dogs imported from Europe or buy their dogs from European-working bloodlines. Because with American-bloodlines, pretty much all of the working traits have been bred OUT of the dogs, because the only emphasis has been on looking flashy when they prance around in that little circle. If you want some pictures of what I mean, they're not hard to find on the net. Be sure to search for European working bloodlines. Some of the dogs may be what you would consider ugly, but the beauty is in the work. Before you can be a true GSD lover, you have to have a passion for what the breed was originally disigned for, and that's definately not the showring.
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Feb 12, 2004 13:57:12 GMT -5
I asked to see pictures of YOUR GSDs. Could you please post them. The only GSDs I consider ugly are those that don't conform to the standard. Please don't try to tell me what it takes to be a GSD lover. I was probably training them before you were born. ;D Norm If you want some pictures of what I mean, they're not hard to find on the net. Be sure to search for European working bloodlines. Some of the dogs may be what you would consider ugly, but the beauty is in the work.
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US2004
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Post by US2004 on Feb 13, 2004 16:06:02 GMT -5
I'm not posting pics of my dog, becuase you think this is a "my dog is better than your dog" argument, and it's not. I meant to say ALL showdogs are a bad representation, not just the one from the Eukanuba talent show. ;D Besides, my dog is out of German working bloodlines, and since you're a showdog fancier, you wouldn't know how to compare the two. The AKC standard is WAY off from the SV standard in Germany(where the breed was originated). Yes I'm sure you've been doing this for years, and that's very sad, because that's years of distruction to the breed. The GSD was not created a showdog and should NOT be treated as one. So how can you be a true GSD lover without having the least bit of concern for working ability? You care more about maintaining banana backs and coat color. I can see Max von Stephanitz(the creator of the GSD) rolling in his grave as to what showdog fanciers have done to it. Because you haven't improved the breed like you may think you have, you've screwed it up! That's the last word from me, as I don't plan on getting through your thick skull, so carry on. And I can already see it now, you're next comment will be something like, "I'm still waiting on those pictures." ;D, as if you just couldn't comprehend the first sentence in this post.
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US2004
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Posts: 13
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Post by US2004 on Feb 13, 2004 16:18:36 GMT -5
Wow are we lucky to have a new member that knows quality GSD's better then the AKC does. Could we see pictures of your dogs so that we can see what a quality GSD looks like? ;D I forgot the mention, that that's one of the biggest problems. You think you can measure quality by a picture, but you CANNOT. Is that how you pick your breeding dogs??? by pretty pictures?? Because it's impossible to see the dog's ability, temperment, nerve, etc from a captured moment. The dog must be put through a series of tests in order to measure breed worthiness. Quality is measured by performance. Ok, this is my last post, PROMISE. Just thought you ought to know.
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Feb 13, 2004 18:31:28 GMT -5
I really didn't think you would post pictures of your dog(s) since people like you prefer to hide behind the anonymity of the computer screen and be insulting rather then indulge in intelligent discussion. If you could read better then you can spell you would have seen in my sig that I own no GSD. As for my comparing the picture of a dog to the standard, all GSD's working or show, still have to conform to the structural qualities of the standard. The standard doesn't make any distinctions between the conformation of the two types (only stupid, biased humans do that). I am glad that you will not be saying anything more, it is better for people like you to be thought of as fools rather then open their mouths and prove it. I'm not posting pics of my dog, becuase you think this is a "my dog is better than your dog" argument, and it's not. I meant to say ALL showdogs are a bad representation, not just the one from the Eukanuba talent show. ;D Besides, my dog is out of German working bloodlines, and since you're a showdog fancier, you wouldn't know how to compare the two. The AKC standard is WAY off from the SV standard in Germany(where the breed was originated). That's the last word from me
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Post by gsdpal2 on Feb 13, 2004 21:20:45 GMT -5
I think that both of you were out looking for a fight when this all began! First of all, Norm, you were totally out of line to assume that a new member knows nothing about the breed. I have only been a member since January, but I have researched this breed for many years and never been without a GSD during my life! Just because I just found this board does not make me uneducated or less of a breed fancier than you or anyone else here for that matter! For the most part, the AKC does not contribute to the betterment of this breeed, and I agree with US2004 on that point. It is our job as fanciers to educate others in this country about the standard and the other qualities that make a GSD great. Yes, it is a fact that TEXT Am bred showline GSDs are bred simply for the ring and what is in style at the time. The drives are often and much of the time bred comletely out of the dogs because people in this country are so afraid of a lawsuit that they want no chances at having a dog bite someone for any reason. As we all know, this is not what a GSD is supposed to be. Our society has made this dOg. overangulation is a huge problem in the Am show ring. Narrow fronts and small bone are problems as well. 90% or more of the Am show GSDs could not work in the field herding sheep all day long if their lives depended on it. That is fact off of Leerberg's site. Now to you, US2004. You told Norm that he could not judge a dog's breed worthiness based on pretty pictures alone. You are right, and I am sure that everyone here would agree with you; however, it can be a good starting point if you are looking to improve certain aspects in a breeding you plan. It should not be that sole deciding factor though. You are also placing an assumption here when you say that we will think that your dogs are ugly. Many of the people on this board have sable working line shepherds. We love them all even if we may not want to own a sable. You also state that ONLY working line shepherds can be wortyh of breeding and performing any type of work. That is not true at all. I know that you obviously prefer the sable, working lines, but I have seen some very "ugly" working line dogs lacking drive enough to do even ScHI. I have seen some very flashy German showline dogs possess loads of drive that would disqualfy them from the typical family home because they are too much dog to handle! Kirschental Kennels in Germany produce some of the best herding, SAR, and servce dogs in the world, but the dogs are beautiful too. Look at Eiko. Everyone has his own camp -- German show vs. working lines -- but we have to evaluate the indivual dog first before we go on spouting our mouths! America is coming around. SOme of the more well known show kennels are going to imports now. The AKC will follow suit as soon as more of the dogs are entered into the ring. Look at Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes (Dallas). He herds and looks more like a German bred show line dog than an American, overangulated dog. I think that I heard them say that he also has the most Best In Shows in history. Even some of the German dogs are more angulated than I would think is breed worthy, but they procreate anyway! Even under the almighty SV! Don't be so quick to condemn. Both of you!
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Norm
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Post by Norm on Feb 13, 2004 22:47:35 GMT -5
I was not looking for a fight I just responded to what I considered an asinine, biased post. I never said a new member knows nothing about the breed. I did say, tongue in cheek, that a specific new member knew more about what makes a quality GSD then the AKC does. The AKC is merely a pedigreed dog registry. How could "it" know about the quality of any breed? How could you know the USA2004 prefered sables? I didn't read anything saying that. As a matter of fact I prefer sables. Color has nothing to do with a dog's working or showing ability it is simply another of the genetic variances in the breed. You say that 90% of American showring dogs couldn't herd sheep. Could 90% of German showring dogs herd? Could 90% of schutzhund, obedience or agility dogs herd? What is the basis for your saying this other then your own bias or something you read on the website of someone in the business of selling dogs? IMO there is only one way of evaluating a dog and that is by comparing it to the standard. First of all, Norm, you were totally out of line to assume that a new member knows nothing about the breed. ....90% or more of the Am show GSDs could not work in the field herding sheep all day long if their lives depended on it. That is fact off of Leerberg's site.
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Kerry
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Post by Kerry on Feb 14, 2004 0:17:38 GMT -5
And boy was it sad Of coarse the AKC doesn't know a quality GSD when they see one, it's not even worth watching to see what they have. Of coarse it's not a dog out of working bloodlines. It's a dog out of bloodlines specifically for that purpose, to trot around in a circle and look pretty. Good evening, Friends, This doesn't sound like US2004 is looking for an argument to me, but expressing a personal opinion, which is what we all do. Perhaps what US2004 didn't realize, but most assuredly does now, is that there are all sorts of GSD fanciers on this Board. I've had to bite my tongue many times and backspace on the keyboard quite a bit as I remind myself of this! In my opinion, as the creator of the breed, the German standard is THE ONLY STANDARD for the German Shepherd Dog, and who do the countries who happen to have a GSD or All-Breed Kennel Club think they are to "create" their own standard? And those GSDs in the Westminster and the AKC/Eukanuba more than likely aren't to the German Standard. What CAN most of those dogs do other than trot around in a circle and look pretty, I ask? That's my OPINION! So, bite my head off, chew me up and spit me out!! This doesn't mean that I care any less for my new friends on this Board who feel differently than I do! People are very sensitive about their dogs. I can see beauty in all of them, (people and their dogs alike) no matter what their persuasion. I hope that you're thick skinned, US2004. I'd still like to see pictures of your dogs. Do you always make an entrance like this? Welcome, once again! ;D
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