Going to Breed (Comments Please)

[freundhund]

Hi Everyone

This is the start of what I hope is a group of comments in which we can gather enough material for an article or as a second thought a book which we as a group could publish and pay for the software so we can keep running this board free.

So here goes.

You are going to mate your bitch.

Well come hell or high water you are going to mate your bitch. Why her parets where champions. Oh

So you have Breed Surveyed her, hip and elbow X-rayed her. Hopefully the answer is yes.

Being yes, have you chosen the sire. Thinking about a dog down the road. Oh etc etc

Now the real thing. Bree is pregnant at the moment and I decided that I would write about what I have done and why to help others but I want other boardmembers to agree or disagree I will not take offense I want to work on this until the puppies are 8 weeks of age. The New Owners Guide is possibly a new thread.

So I mated Bree again to my boy Boo this was a planned mating. Bree has had 2 previous litters she had 3 puppies in her first litter and 2 puppies in her sencond litter, all puppies have been male so far and I have wanted a bitch from her.

Why did I mate her to Boo because I have had difficulty in getting her mated It has taken 7yrs to work out that she ovulates around day 7 and not day 12. As I have always worked previously on the day 12 principle and have not been successful. Normally I start blood testing from day 10 for the most accurrate date to mate from. Also I was very happy with the resulting 2 boys from her first litter,

This mating has been a back to back mating meaning she had puppies last season and I have put her straight back in whelp. My reasons I have tried mating Bree on numerous occasions to outside stud dogs and keep missing with her. For her first litter she ended up going to live with a friend from day 2 of her season and was mated on day 9 because the stud dog wwas going mental saying she was ready. I had previously had blood tested her and swabbed her and we could not get a good enough reading to decide when to mate her, being ready and mating on day 9 should have indicated something to me. Next mating I did was with Boo as I wanted to test his fertility and it was not a problem if Bree missed so I mated on day 10. This time Boo was interested and Bree was standing for him on day 7 so in the car we went to a friend of mine who has had a lot more experience handling boy dogs (No pun intended) we had an excellent mating with a good tie. So people like to time ties for all different reasons ie longer tie gives more puppies. I don't bother I passed sex education at school and believe that dog getting pregnant is the same as humans. Good enough to remind children that look the dogs only mated once and look how many puppies we got. <my daughter assures me that I have made her decide to wait a bit longer before she tries anything she doesn't want children yet.>

This mating has so far resulted in a bitch that looks like a beer keg on stilts. What have I done to get the bitch ready. Well I have made sure that she was on a good diet with plenty of vitamins and raw meaty bones for calcium in the puppies bones. As she has 12 days to go I have put her on 3 small meals a day because for the first time she has started to eat the poo of my other dogs an indication that she has not had enough to eat. She cannot eat all of her evening meal.

What has having a large litter done to my breeding program quite a lot. Here in Australia I cannot give a bitch 3 matings in a row with out a vets certificate which has to be accepted by our Canine Council. As this was going to be Bree's third litter but first back to back I was hoping to be allowed to mate here again now that I know to mate her so early to the dog I have been planning to for 3yrs Jock vom Arlett who is a 4 hr drive away from me. This litter her 4th would have been her last as she will be 8 yrs old in November and I can no longer breed her under our rules. Please note I voted in favour of these rules and would prefer to abide by them.

So everyone comments please on what you would so and what you wouldn't do would be appreciated.

Regards

Freundhund

[Dianne]

Well girl, it looks like just us Aussies..

I personally do not give a fig for titles or surveys...just someone elses opinion of the Breed Standard and/or the Bloodline behind a dog.. ::)or the handler on the lead..yes people it does happen..a bitch I bred was surveyed Class 11..later on that day..same judge/surveyer.. different handler...Runner Up in Show..Graded Excellent

Yes..always do make sure the Hips/Elbows/ and haemophilia[for dogs] are O.K.

I will use a dog, with great temperament..compatable bloodlines..usually lines that are family to my kids..when/if not..the breeding partner must be of similar phenotype.

Everything else as you said freundhund I have had..real pain when the bitch will actually conceive on day 7ish. blood tests?..as about as reliable as most things concerning hormones...nice little income for the vets.
I did not "vote" for the code of ethics we agree to abide by when we sign our memberships, but I do support it whole heartedly..it was "placed" upon us by the V.C.A. before you guys had one..and I think the R.N.S.W.C.C. adopted a similar Code from our Control..[but do stand corrected if wrong ]

I do not consider what others think of my choices..I read all, listen to all, go to visit, and select the breeding partners on type..bloodline..soundness and temperament..the plainest girl at our house has produced some of the best puppies...carbon copies of their bloodline.

Above all have a plan...not just down the road to the nearest..and the most expensive stud is more than likely the considered flavour of the month, and well connected.
There is no point breeding if you are not looking down the path to the next three or more generations..

As always..JMHO
Cheers,
Di

[freundhund]

Thanks Dianne

Well I am line breeding with Bree and Boo. Also Boo was originally breed to complement his breeders lines.

It's just he lives with me.

As you would appreciate Breed Survey to me only means I can sell puppies through the club. After all a well known breeder in Sydney who doesn't play politics has 2 bitches both Breed Survey Class 11. Both Bitches under International and German Judges have 20 Excellent Medals, both have been in the top 5 in the Open Bitch Class under Germans far lesser bitches have gone Class 1.

I don't believe the North Americans and Europeans on the board would understand how difficult it is to show here without politics.

It would just be nice to get more people go for their Judges Licence here. So that it was not so monopolizied in the sport. Oh well if wishes were horses, beggars woud ride.

As you can tell Dianne if you go through Breed Survey Books, if I am nice and lucky Boo will get a Class II. However, I have had to write to National Council here in Australia advising that I am not prepared to him surveyed by our state's head surveyor.

In Australia we do not have the number of people breeding, showing or judging dogs to give people in the dog world a level playing field. In years to come with a larger number of participants one can hope that this will change.

Anyhow Dianne these comments have nothing to do with the topic or thread that I was writing. It's just self indulgence on my part. <read dummy spit>

Regards

Freundhund

[Schaeferhund]

" After all a well known breeder in Sydney who doesn't play politics has 2 bitches both Breed Survey Class 11. Both Bitches under International and German Judges have 20 Excellent Medals, both have been in the top 5 in the Open Bitch Class under Germans far lesser bitches have gone Class 1. "


A dog can be koerclass 2 and be V-rated. Oversized, overweight, missing tooth, courage "present" etc. ...

Or is it that you don't get class 1 unless you're IN with the politics in Australia ??

[freundhund]

Unfortunately the last line is correct.

For myself it is not a problem as I do both show, obedience, tracking etc.

But for the ones that want to have winning dogs it is frustrating. As for my friends dogs they do not have anything like missing teeth, oversize both are very correct type animals.

Regards

Freundhund

[Schaeferhund]

freundhund said:

Unfortunately the last line is correct.

That's a disgrace!! And a thought in Germany politics were bad

[JanisN]

Personally I would do what you have done! I'm doing a re-breeding with Enschi and Tito because I didn't get to keep a female out of her last litter so it's perfectly understandable that you reallly want a female to continue the line!

With small litters and good recovery, breeding back to back shouldn't be a problem. It sounds like you've kept her in good condition and paid more than adequate attention to her nutrition.

About the 7 years to figure out her cycle? They don't do vaginal smears? I start testing on day 3 here. It's about $10 per test and takes 15 minutes to get the results.

JanisN

[freundhund]

Hi Janis

Yes you can do vaginal smears but you actually have to have a vet that can read them properly. Cost AUD$75

The closest vet that does them properly is a 2 hr car trip each way. Plus sometimes otherthings happen.

So I am now on count down.

But this thread in which I wanted to use for us to start as an article train of thread seems to have become a personal indulgence thread am trying to get myself back in line.

Regards

Freundhund

[JanisN]

If you go to the Leerburg site you can get full color pictures of the slides at different cornifications. And you can buy a good, used second hand microscope, probably at the Sydney Uni used book shop. I don't read my own slides because the vet only chargeds $10 for them and I'm lazy but you might want to learn!

JanisN

[freundhund]

Hi Janis

Thanks for the tip about the used bookshop at Syney Uni. I had forgotten about it.

Well most of you know by now Bree had 6 puppies approximately 5 days early. All the puppies had good birth weights between 490 grams and 550 grams. The male puppy I lost was one of the heavier puppies weighing in at 550 grams.

We are now at day 5 and Bree has decided that the entire pack is allowed in to visit her puppies. In our family that means the other fur-kids. During whelping Paris my second eldest bitch was allowed to help lick the puppies dry. Fire, my eldest bitch just lay outside the whelping box watching. Boo the father had to stay outside.

After the puppies arrived Bree decided she needed them to herself for a few days so she had a little growl at the pack. Who of course were promptly reminded that no they couldn't visit now. This lasted for 4 days with Boo each time he had to walk pass the whelping box dropping toys into the new mother. NOTE my whelping box is in my kitchen and my dogs have to go passed it to go to the laundry where they sleep when I have new puppies. This should be fixed when the house is renovated.

As I have impeccable timing I had also agreed during this time to babysit Bree's son from her last litter which made logistics even more interesting. However, Sumo was only with us for 4 days before he went home.

Bree was quite happy after the first 36 hours to go and play with the others. Fire was always allowed to stay in the kitchen near the puppies. As of today the puppies being a week old everyone has been allowed in the whelping box including dad who is quite good at what we refer to as topping and tailing. He is totally besotted with his offspring.

Running dogs in a pack the way I do is not for everyone. As to run a balanced pack you have to be the one in charge with no-one being allowed to challenge. I have run my pack with up to 6 bitches living together, at the moment my pack is made up of the 3 bitches and 1 dog. This is the first time I have run the pack with a male in it. The dynamics of the pack have changed somewhat but fortunately so far there have been no problems running it with a male.

It will be interesting to see the developement of the temperament of these puppies being bought up in a dog pack that is made up of family pets.

Regards

Freundhund

[whizzie]

freundhund said:

Running dogs in a pack the way I do is not for everyone. As to run a balanced pack you have to be the one in charge with no-one being allowed to challenge.

This is my experience too. If the dogs respect and trust your authority it works really well. With puppies in the house it is important to "read" the bitch, and control a situation before she takes charge. My father got a shock when he wanted to approach the new puppies; I had warned him several times that he shouldn't get any closer, but because I failed to convince him Whiz got the message across clearly. ;D No harm done, but he WILL listen to me in future. I felt I'd let her down......

It will be interesting to see the developement of the temperament of these puppies being bought up in a dog pack that is made up of family pets.

Although my "pack" is smaller, it has certainly been of benefit to the puppies to belong to a family group. The adult dogs are all good at "housekeeping" with the pups, and all of them learn to respect the pecking order.
Weaning is much easier too.