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Post by liebejungen on Feb 24, 2004 12:56:24 GMT -5
"because it will keep her from her CGC, which we need from an insurance standpoint, but mostly because our trainers at the training club are making a big deal out of it. (one is suggesting that it may be a form of Canine Compulsive Disorder, I do not aggree)" Compulsive Disorder ... I don't agree. Different dogs show different levels of dominace and agression, it's not a disorder, it's natural. Leash agression is common, especially in "teenage" dogs. My male has just turned 6 months, and he's getting worse and worse towards other dogs. Nobody ever told me he's got a disorder though He's overconfident, overdominant, overenergetic, selfassured young man, who's now actually discovered, some dogs are starting to be afraid of him. That'll be a lot of work, but work helps in 99% of cases. Thank you, that is exaxtly what i think too. I was telling my wife the other day that, although i do not enjoy the fact of the behavior problem, i am in a wierd sort of way, thankful for it. Why? Because it tells me that my dog is confident, driven, and very much what she was bred to be. Also, it gives me the push i need to make me focus on her training the way I should. In short, when all this trouble is over, and we have prevailed, we will have a great dog! Thanks for all of your advice. It would help if my "behavioral modification trainer" were a GSD owner/breader/trainer.
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Post by TheDahliMamma on Feb 24, 2004 22:34:28 GMT -5
I would like to pipe in and agree with everything Jan and Dennis have said. Especially turning away from the other dog - circling to break the eye contact.
But, the other thing I like to do is to add a Gentle Leader. Many people don't like the Gentle Leader head collar, but the HUGE reason I like it is because I can essentially force the dog to look at me and take their focus off the other dogs. I can MAKE the dog break that eye contact with the other dog and I can control their head so they HAVE to look at me. When I get compliance, I release the pressure of the GL.
Once in a while I find a dog who will not respond to the Gentle Leader, but it is very effective in taking control of the dog's head and eye contact, which gives ME the advantage of attention.
Find someone who know how to use the Gentle Leader and who uses it for aggression/reactivity who can help you to use it correctly. It is only a device to help you get the behavior so you can reward it positively.
The GL works on the principle of the maternal correction...where the mother dog growls and puts her mouth over a pup's muzzle to demonstrate her displeasure with some behavior or assert her dominance. The GL puts pressure over the muzzle of the dog. It is not a muzzle. The dog can eat, drink, take treats while wearing the GL.
Once again, what I like is that I can REQUIRE attention because I control the dog's head.
Good luck! Fran
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Post by Cassidy's Mom on Feb 25, 2004 12:33:08 GMT -5
Hi everyone - new member, might as well jump in. Cassidy has leash aggression, and we had never heard of it either. We were mystified as hell since she'd been going to an off leash park every weekend, and was well socialized to other dogs. On leash, a whole other story, which made training classes a big nightmare. It was determined that it was more frustration than true aggression in her case since she played nicely with others off leash. We made it through puppy class okay since there were anywhere from 4-6 dogs in the class on any night, but the level one class had 10 dogs in the same room. She just couldn't focus at all. Trained great at home, but lost it in class. About 3/4 of the way through the class, the trainer suggested we drop out and try the special "Difficult Dog" class at the Marin Humane Society. We ended up taking the class, and it was great. We learned all sorts of techniques for dealing with leash aggression. Dogs were required to wear Gentle Leaders. Some of what Curr and Janis and others talked about such as breaking eye contact (cover the dogs eyes with your hand), and working on attention focusing exercises were part of the class. The class was outside and we started out with the dogs at a safe distance and each week worked them closer and closer to each other. It was a treat heavy class, and the dogs were heavily rewarded for keeping their focus on us, and ignoring the other dogs. Between each exercise we put our dogs in a down, sat with them and massaged them to keep them relaxed. If they were distracted by another dog, we covered the eyes, and rewarded them when they broke contact with the other dog. One great exercise was to put the dogs in a line on the grass strip next to the sidewalk The dogs were in a down at a distance from each other that they could tolerate, and we sat on the ground with them. One at a time the dogs were walked past the row of dogs on the ground. The dog being walked was treated continuously, and the dogs on the ground were treated as soon as the dog walked into their field of vision, and the treats stopped the second the dog left their field of vision. The whole time we talked to our dogs in a happy voice, and praised them for their good behavior. The idea was not only to reward them for not reacting to the other dogs, but also to create positive associations with the presence of other dogs. The goal was to keep them as relaxed as possible. The worst dogs could be facing away from the sidewalk as the dogs walked by, other dogs could be acutally facing the sidewalk, but with the owner in front to keep the dogs focus on them. What Janis mentioned about some dogs getting courage from their owners was very true with Cassidy. There was a technique called Abandonment Training to deal with this that worked like magic for her. It teaches the dog that you will not back them up, that you are leaving and they can too. You need a regular leash and a long line. As you walk towards another dog, the SECOND that you see a reaction, the ear tilt, body stiffening, eyes hardening, yell to get your dog's attention while throwing the leash at her, then turn immediately and run or walk rapidly while calling your dog to you. Since the dog is on a long line she is still under your control, but she won't realize it. If you have a helper, they can hold the long line while you leave. Don't stop until the dog gets to you and then shower her with praise and treats. You want to catch the dog BEFORE the full blown reaction. We did this with Cassidy 4 or 5 times over a period of 20 minutes, and she went from reacting from the moment she first saw the other dog across a grass field to walking calmly past the other dog no more than 3 or 4 feet away while looking at us. Here's link that goes into more detail about the technique and the type of dog that it works for: www.apdt.com/documents/2002-07-newsletter.pdf It's from the APDT newsletter and is written by the trainer we took the class from. The things we worked on outside of class were "watch" exercises, and leash walking around the neighborhood doing the bar open/bar closed treats if we saw another dog, literally shoving handfuls of treats in her face, and also lots of directional changes to keep her paying attention to us. When working on this problem, it's really important that you remain as calm as possible so your dog doesn't read your stress and react to that. It's hard to do since of course you are anticipating your dog's reaction. I got so used to grinning like a lunatic, and talking happy talk that I don't even think about it anymore, but it was something I really had to concentrate on at first. Good luck with your dog. We were told that this sort of thing is common with the breed and the age, and it does seem that a lot of people are dealing with it lately. Debbie
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Post by JanisN on Feb 25, 2004 13:21:04 GMT -5
Debbie what a ton of great suggestions! The abandoment training is a GREAT one and will REALLY make them think twice about the behavior as you found out.
JanisN
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Post by liebejungen on Feb 27, 2004 14:55:15 GMT -5
Debbie,
thanks for the tip. that Abandoment training sounds promising. I will have to try to set something up soon.
Right now i am focusing on attention excersises and a good heel. When we gradually start working back to being around dogs, that will probably be a very handy thing.
J
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