Help! Agressiveness toward other dogs

[liebejungen]

Bad news. Elsa Failed the CGC tonight. She passed everything but greeting a person with another dog. We didn't take two steps after i gave the command to go, and she was off to the end of the leash growling and barking. There was now holding her attentiong.

This isn't a big supprise, because when another dog is around, and it grabs her attention, you cease to exist.

How do I train her to ignore other dogs when we are working and trying to pass tests. I realize she is not quite 8 months old, but I am not sure how to deal with a normally well behaved dog, when she is ignoring me, no matter what treat or toy I offer to her. I am not exaggerating when i say that i could wave a steak in front of her face and she wouldn't notice it. Leash corrections also do not work (she is very touch insensitive)

How do you deal with a dog when they do this?

[sandy]

Other dogs are my Elzie's ultimate distraction as well. She is just now, at almost 10 months, able to work around other dogs without being out of her mind. Although with Elzie it's not aggressive-type behaviour, just dumb 'wanna play? wanna play?' behaviour.

How does Elsa act in other doggy situations? Does she 'play nice' or would you say that she is generally aggressive to all, or certain other, dogs?

Sometimes, socializing with other dogs can be all it takes. Or, I don't even really mean socializing...more like 'exposure to other dogs'. Having her be around other dogs and nothing really happens, other than the occasional sniff that is allowed. I might call it casual exposure.

And you are right, she is awfully young yet. I am very impressed that you are going for her CGC at under 8 months! Good job!

[liebejungen]

sandy said:

How does Elsa act in other doggy situations? Does she 'play nice' or would you say that she is generally aggressive to all, or certain other, dogs?

That is a hard question to answer. The best I can do is say "it depends". She plays nicely with some dogs and others she really is nasty and agressive towards. I am not really sure what sets her off with other dogs, but my feeling is that she either does not like dogs that do not submit to her right away (she is sort of an alpha type) or she doesn't like high energy dogs.

There are a couple black labs in our class that she goes nuts everytime we get near them in the ring. Other dogs she is fine with, although she will do anything to play with them.

I think that we have been spoiled with her becuase she learns everything so quickly. We have never had trouble with her destroying objects in the house, getting on furnature, pottying in the house, or jumping on guests. She is so very trainable, I suppose I have come to expect that everything should be as easy as it is.

But, no dog is that perfect and I suppose it is just going to take more time and effort to get her to behave civily around dogs. Perhaps if we focus on meeting other dogs, everyday, it will become routine and she will understand how she is to behave?

And hopefully age will mellow her before she makes her second attempt next spring.

[Schaeferhund]

liebejungen said:

And hopefully age will mellow her before she makes her second attempt next spring.

You have to consider that if it is dominance, it will get worse with maturity, so around 1.5 - 2 years. So don't wait for it to sort itself out.
Maybe you should join a class, where the dog learns to be around other dogs regulary.

[liebejungen]

Schaeferhund said:

You have to consider that if it is dominance, it will get worse with maturity, so around 1.5 - 2 years. So don't wait for it to sort itself out.
Maybe you should join a class, where the dog learns to be around other dogs regulary.

Actually, we have been in classes since she was 12 weeks old specifically for that reason. However, most of the time she is not allowed to interact with the other dogs. They do have play times, and she has done better in those times (depending on what dog she is sent to the play area with).

I think the logical course of action would be to start taking her places where she can meat other dogs, outside of class, and reward her when she does well. If this is a daily occurrence, perhaps it will not be as big a deal with her anymore.

For the most part, Ii think she just wants to play, but it is the exceptions that scare us.

ON a side note, an adult great Dane that passed the CGC last night, attacked her (unprovoked this time) just after he had been given his certification. She didn't back down. I thought it odd that he should have received his CGC and Elsa, who only wanted to play probably, didn't. I am sort of glad she didn't pass, if only for the fact that it will make us work on her interaction with other dogs and she will actually be worthy of passing the test next time, and not just sliding through by the slightest of margins.

[Schaeferhund]

liebejungen said:

Actually, we have been in classes since she was 12 weeks old specifically for that reason. However, most of the time she is not allowed to interact with the other dogs. They do have play times, and she has done better in those times (depending on what dog she is sent to the play area with).

Oh, I see, in that case I'd concentrate rather on getting her to listen to you 100%. So whatever situation, you can control her.

liebejungen said:

For the most part, Ii think she just wants to play, but it is the exceptions that scare us.

If it is dominance, again, the control thing is the safest way to go, because a dominant dog will stay dominant, doesn't matter how many dogs (s)he meets.


Where do you walk her? Is she meeting dogs in her offtime, off the leash? If, how does she react then? How does she react when she first gets a glimpse of other dog? Does she freeze for a second? Does she stare at the other dog? Does she bark at all?

Before I would say, that it's probably not dominance, cause she's so young, but my new male shows strong dominant tendencies at the age of 4 months So I'm very cautios.. I have another thing coming anyway

[liebejungen]

She mostly meets dogs at the pets stores, which I take her to as often as I can. There are a few dogs in our neighborhood, but we do not meet many when we are walking. When she does see one, she gets really excited and starts pulling, but usually doesn't bark or growl.

She usually only barks when she cannot get to the other dog. But then you cannot tell if she is going to just sniff the other dog, play with them, or grab them by the throat. (fortunately she will usually obey the "aus" command and lets go)

I would say the latter scenario only happens5-10% of the time, with the exception of a couple of dogs in training class where it is 100% of the time.

I think you are correct in saying that we really need to work most on getting her to pay attention to us 100% of the time, and I imagine that will take quite a few repetitions in places like pet stores, parks, and wherever else i can find.

Thanks for the advice.

[Schaeferhund]

liebejungen said:

I think you are correct in saying that we really need to work most on getting her to pay attention to us 100% of the time, and I imagine that will take quite a few repetitions in places like pet stores, parks, and wherever else i can find.

Don't start it off in parks though. Find a quiet place with no dogs or people around and do basic obedience. Heeling, down and stay etc. Then increase the disstraction level slowly. It doesn't sound like she's overly aggressive to me. More like teenage disobedience

[opione]

I have to agree to start off in a more quiet surrounding and socialize your dog with other dogs...The most important thing to remember is to correct your dog when it displays that aggressiveness.

[liebejungen]

Are any of you familiar with the concept of "Leash Aggression"?

Our trainer suggested that this may be what we are dealing with. When she is cannot get to another dog, (or rabbit ...etc) she sort of gets overly excited and jumps and barks. When she is allowed to be free, she approaches the animal, and basically behaves calmly and playfully.

We tested this the other night when i came home from work. My wife put Elsa on a leash and restrained he from doing her normal greeting ritual. Normally she will com up to me, excited but for the most part under control and after circling once, will sit down so that I will great her.

But, when she was on the leash, she went berserk, would not remain in "bleib", and generally went nuts.

Is leash aggression a real thing and if so, how do you deal with it?

[Currmudgeon]

Schaeferhund said:

Find a quiet place with no dogs or people around and do basic obedience. Heeling, down and stay etc. Then increase the disstraction level slowly.

I agree. Work on the obedience. It gives the dog something to fall back on, a coping technique if you will. Do this under controlled conditions, so you can regulate the amount of distracting stimulation. When obedience under distraction is solid, introduce another dog slowly. Start at a distance and a minimal exposure. Work up from there.

I'd avoid parks and other uncontrolled situations, because you want to control the entire situation. It allows you to cheat the dog through without something happening to blow up your program and cause a setback.

[trish]

Sounds like you are really working on the issue with her and exposing her to many situations. I agree, keep working her obedience, teach her a watch. Get her solid, then slowly add distractions. This way you can give her the watch command during your CGC or when you are out with her in the public. I teach my dogs the "leave it" command with other dogs. I just want my dogs to ignore another dog, they don't have to be buddies with strange dogs. I'm afraid not everyone is as responsible as you, for ex. the great dane incident. I've had people say their dogs aren't agressive-the next thing I know their dog is going after mine I find that works best with my bunch! Safer for everyone! Good luck and keep working toward her CGC, she's young, you have time!

[JanisN]

Aggressiveness on the leash can also be that the dog gains confidence on the leash because Mom or Dad is there to protect her if anything bad happens. Off leash, she's on her own and has to use more appropriate doggie greeting rituals.

I've found this is a common problem with this age group and EASILY trained out if you don't let it become a habit. When my little buttheads start this behavior, it's a quick correction and fuss away from the dog and then turn around to try again.

As mentioned, you HAVE to have a solid watch me command and have to be able to get the dog's attention. The random walk I mentioned or just turning around, giving the fuss command and GO no matter what the dog is doing. If they get dragged... well they better keep up, eh?

I've got one going through this stage now. At bitework he LOVES to bark like nuts, but he's not barking at the bitework, he's barking at the other dogs.<rolling eyes>
We're working on it.

JanisN

[liebejungen]

JanisN said:

Aggressiveness on the leash can also be that the dog gains confidence on the leash because Mom or Dad is there to protect her if anything bad happens. Off leash, she's on her own and has to use more appropriate doggie greeting rituals.

I've found this is a common problem with this age group and EASILY trained out if you don't let it become a habit. When my little buttheads start this behavior, it's a quick correction and fuss away from the dog and then turn around to try again.

As mentioned, you HAVE to have a solid watch me command and have to be able to get the dog's attention. The random walk I mentioned or just turning around, giving the fuss command and GO no matter what the dog is doing. If they get dragged... well they better keep up, eh?

I've got one going through this stage now. At bitework he LOVES to bark like nuts, but he's not barking at the bitework, he's barking at the other dogs.<rolling eyes>
We're working on it.

JanisN

One more question (at least) ;- )

When your dogs exhibit this sort of behavior, do you have trouble getting their attention for a while (meaning does it take several encounters with the leash correction and fuss away to start getting them to pay attention when you say Watch! or whatever)

She gets such tunnel vision when she encounters another dog. I think that is the one part that bothers me the most. It is hard to train when you cannot get their attention. I am assuming that after many days and many such repetitions that she may start paying attention.

Is this a good assumption?


(If you cannot tell, this particular behavior is a big worry for us. Partly because it will keep her from her CGC, which we need from an insurance standpoint, but mostly because our trainers at the training club are making a big deal out of it. (one is suggesting that it may be a form of Canine Compulsive Disorder, I do not aggree)

On the bright side, she really doesn't have any other major problems. ;- )

[Schaeferhund]

"because it will keep her from her CGC, which we need from an insurance standpoint, but mostly because our trainers at the training club are making a big deal out of it. (one is suggesting that it may be a form of Canine Compulsive Disorder, I do not aggree)"

Compulsive Disorder ... I don't agree. Different dogs show different levels of dominace and agression, it's not a disorder, it's natural. Leash agression is common, especially in "teenage" dogs.
My male has just turned 6 months, and he's getting worse and worse towards other dogs. Nobody ever told me he's got a disorder though He's overconfident, overdominant, overenergetic, selfassured young man, who's now actually discovered, some dogs are starting to be afraid of him. That'll be a lot of work, but work helps in 99% of cases.