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Post by TheDahliMamma on Dec 7, 2003 11:38:31 GMT -5
Ricardo, Your explanations are always appreciated. I have learned so much from you and your seminars.
If anyone else gets a chance to hear Ricardo in person, I would highly recommend it. He is a wealth of knowledge.
Thanks, Ricardo!
Fran Jewell
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Post by gsdoglady on Dec 7, 2003 12:14:23 GMT -5
I will second that -- and it does not matter if you are on the SV-AKC-CKC or any other persuasion. This is a very good seminar.
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Post by Jezzi on Dec 7, 2003 12:31:32 GMT -5
Welcome Ricardo!!!
Your wealth of knowledge will truly be appreciated here, please participate often, I always learn so much from you!
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Post by ovejero on Dec 7, 2003 20:09:46 GMT -5
Thank you guys for such a warm welcome!! It was really unexpected and very heartwarming. I have to commend the creators for this new site. It is truly wonderful, easy to navigate, friendly and very appealing. Good going! Congrats Lori and the rest of the team for putting this together!
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Post by ovejero on Dec 8, 2003 11:36:31 GMT -5
In re-reading my post I realized that perhaps my comments could be taken as a negative evaluation of Ursus and his progeny. Not at all. In fact I just got a ltter out of an Ursus son and I am very happy with it. Obviously the dog is a top producer and he is leaving behind great things.
The point I am making has to do with "troubleshooting" a specific conformation problem so you know exactly what it is you must correct in breeding. Since strength and width of thig is somewhat disconnected to angulation one must decide which problem to attack and what dog to use to fix one or the other problem (or both if both are present).
A female considered to be mated to the Ursus line must herself have the desired characteristics of rear conformation so you don't run the risk of fixing the traits of short croups and underangulated rears forever in your program.
FOr example. If I were to consider an Ursus son which displays these characteristics and whose sibblings also display the same problems, and I were to use that male with a bitch who herself and her siblings display the same problem... then I know the puppies will be most likely like the immediate family line and also possibly become dominant for the unwanted trait.
The best scenario is to retrieve all the good attribute that Ursus progeny can render at the same time bypassing his shortcomings by using a female who herself and most of his immediate family is devoid of the rear problems in question.
I think this rounds the concept and I apologize if the first post sounded somewhat negative on Ursus or his progeny.
Ricardo
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Post by gsdoglady on Dec 8, 2003 16:44:54 GMT -5
Good job, Ricardo.
I think often when people do paper breedings and get all excited over linebreedings, they fail to take your last post into consideration. Linebreeding on a dog by using offspring that have his good points while avoiding his weaknesses is the ideal way to do it. That means carefully and honestly evaluating the dog.
Pointing out a dog has some faults does not mean he is not a good dog nor that he is not a valuable breeding partner when used properly.
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Post by geronimo on Dec 8, 2003 18:09:53 GMT -5
" The width of the thigh is given primarily by two components, 1) the length of the pelvis from where the thigh muscles hang downward (down from the crest of the ischium comes the front edge of the thigh and down from the point of the illium comes the rear line of the thigh) and 2) the position of the croup which will render a wider thigh if it is placed flat and a narrower thigh if it is placed steep."
Ricardo,
I believe you have the ileum and ishium in reverse order ;-). It is the ilium (the rostral portion of the pelvis) that has a "crest" and the ischium (the most caudal portion of the pelvis) that comes to a "point".
Sorry for the lesson in anatomy; however, when I read your statement, I was confused and practically standing on my head trying to figure out what you were trying to say. Otherwise, a good discussion of width of thigh.
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Post by geronimo on Dec 8, 2003 18:15:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have typed "ischium" both times--rather than "ishium".
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Post by ginabean on Dec 10, 2003 16:01:21 GMT -5
This is a really helpful thread. I have a Vantor son and am looking at an Ursus daughter. Have any of you noticed anything (good or bad) being prevalent in Ursus daughters?
And also, what do you considers Ursus's BEST points that he seems to be reproducing? Thanks!
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Post by geronimo on Dec 11, 2003 19:18:35 GMT -5
ginabean wrote: "This is a really helpful thread. I have a Vantor son and am looking at an Ursus daughter. Have any of you noticed anything (good or bad) being prevalent in Ursus daughters? And also, what do you considers Ursus's BEST points that he seems to be reproducing?" Again, I refer you to photos of some of his progeny: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny_pictures/6186.html. I see little difference in the qualities of the males and females. A lot depends on the bitches bred to Ursus. We have already discussed some of the faults he produces. IMO, a bitch bred to Ursus should have as many of these qualities as possible: medium size (he may produce very LARGE dogs), rich pigmentation (he produces a wide range of pigmentation--generally fairly dark), no "lippiness", good length of upper arm and correct shoulder placement, correct tailset and croup, good turn of stifle and BROAD lower thigh. Based on my personal (limited) experience, I would say that Ursus generally produces outstanding heads, excellent type, strong ears of correct size and set, dark eyes, incorruptible character, bites that are clearheaded and full, powerful gait, somewhat slow maturation (like himself), great working drive and focus. In another forum, the issues of focus and attention were negatively addressed. I find that he produces very DOMINANT dogs which need to learn early on their pack relationship to their alpha human. This means that they may not always be successfully trained with solely food and toy rewards. Otherwise, when they develop a basic knowledge of various exercises, they may become bored, develop their own agendas, and feel confident enough to experiment and improvise. My Ursus son completed his SchH3 IPO3 KKl1 with Heidi Theis when he was 27 months. When I could see that he could quickly become trial-wise and feeling in control during his SchH1, I told Heidi (a very kind, humane trainer, BTW), I sent him home with instructions to put Mr. Nimo in "doggie boot camp". In no time, he learned to see the exercises in black and white terms and to realize the rewards of control and drive containment. Right, now the fine-tuning training I'm doing with Nimo could make him one of the best working show dogs I've seen--within my own physical limitations. He definitely has the focus, intensity, and drive. I'm doing some private e-collar training with Jim Dobbs and teaching Nimo correctness and drive-containment. In other words, to keep him from going into "overdrive" and becoming hectic, I avoid anything that would further build drive. My commmands and praise (including occasional food rewards) are very soothing and calming until he gets a release with his favorite tug. Essentially, what I'm say is that really high-drive Ursus progeny must be trained somewhat DIFFERENTLY (without a lot of physical motion and higher-pitched verbal commands/praise from the handler) from dogs with less drive. JMHO.
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Post by dudeeph on Feb 4, 2004 6:04:15 GMT -5
Hi, what can I expect if I'll line breed ursus at 3-3 with other lines coming from dam and sire are jaguar monchberg and Lord georg Viktor turm?
Any projection?
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